Election 2008

[Boss]

If the election were held today, who would get your vote? I can't believe how hard all these guys are pimpin' already. I'm guessing a couple more might toss their hat in the ring, but this is the list so far--15 in total. Quite a list for an election almost two years away.

[Hole In Face]

Wow, what wide and varied selection of douchebags. Jesus, I don't know... McCain I guess.... Maybe Giuliani... Probably nobody...

[AB]

Aww man, It's only Feb '07, my freakin heads gonna explode!!!

[Sledge Hammer!]

No Newt?

[Boss]

No Newt?

He wasn't on the "official list" I pulled the Repubs from.

[The Dude]

WTF??? No Nader?

[Franks n Beans]

How come "Stay home" is not an option?

[Boss]

WTF??? No Larouche? Fuck off already. This is the list. Pick one of these slimeballs. No other dumb schmuck out there has a shot in hell anyway. It's going to come down to Either Clinton or Obama for the Dems and Either Guiliani or McCain for the Reps. I'm going to say the two from NYC are going to square off in the official showdown come November 2008. Rudy v Hillary. The real question and probably the deciding factor will be who they choose as running mates. Rudy will have to choose someone with Southern ties if he's going to have a chance and Hillary is going to have to pick someone that people actually like to balance out her sour puss. In the end, whoever puts the state of NY in their column for the electoral college wins it outright.

[Boss]

How come "Stay home" is not an option?

What are you, fucking canadian?

[Taco Teo]

I think I'm going to do a write-in vote for Kinky. Just because he lost down here in the land of Rick Perry doesn't mean...oh, who am I kidding? He doesn't have a shot at all. But he'd be better than any of these other people.

[Franks n Beans]

WTF??? No Larouche? Fuck off already. This is the list. Pick one of these slimeballs. No other dumb schmuck out there has a shot in hell anyway. It's going to come down to Either Clinton or Obama for the Dems and Either Guiliani or McCain for the Reps. I'm going to say the two from NYC are going to square off in the official showdown come November 2008. Rudy v Hillary. The real question and probably the deciding factor will be who they choose as running mates. Rudy will have to choose someone with Southern ties if he's going to have a chance and Hillary is going to have to pick someone that people actually like to balance out her sour puss. In the end, whoever puts the state of NY in their column for the electoral college wins it outright.

I don't know if you're really serious but if you are, :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Boss]

Well, politics is basically one big fucking joke nowadays anyway.

[Belasco]

I'm putting my money on Hillary picking John Edwards as her running mate. He's Southern and without the sour-puss factor that Boss mentioned. Watch carefully and see if they go at each other in these initial stages and then see everything go hunky-dorey when she gets the nomination and picks him.

[Franks n Beans]

I can't choose right now because it doesn't make too much sense to research these clowns untill next summer when the real mud slinging starts.

[dr.orfannkyl]

America's mayor has my vote.

[Sledge Hammer!]

The criteria for my vote is simple, anti-terrorist and anti-illegal and fuck everything else. I feel McCain is yea on the former but ney on the latter therefore I have my reservations with him. The other above listed Republican candidates I do not know enough about yet. Someone do the research and get back with me since I am too damn indolent to do it myself right now.

By the way Gingrich is a legitimate candidate who I predict will eventually throw his hat in to the ring this time around.

[Boss]

By the way Gingrich is a legitimate candidate who I predict will eventually throw his hat in to the ring this time around.

He's too far removed from the political scene. I would venture to guess most voters under the age of 25 have no clue who he is.

[aaron burr]

i love it! Lyndon LaRouche!

btw - you forgot to add former Ak Sen. Mike Gravel - the guy who had the guts to share the Pentagon Papers with the world along with Daniel Ellsberg. Gravel is an official candidate on the Dem side.

I interviewed LaRouche in 2004 and he actually started to scare me...and then his "cadre" of youth members entered the room and serenaded me like a choir with a song that went "Laaaa-Roooooosh / Laaaa- Rooooosh"...it was very surreal.

He was sure to make certain i had some of his books and his "Children of Satan" publication revealing, in his very very very roundabout way that the CFR was a front for mass pedophilia and economic domination. It's quite a read, let me tell you.

I just finsihed rereading McCain's 'Faith of my Fathers' - not a bad campaign book - he'd have been a zillion times better than Bush, that much is true. I really liked talking to McCain in 2000, but wonder who he decided to kowtow too this year, especially now that Pat Robertson's a "pal".

This will be my 4th time covering the campaign trail and getting to yap with all the candidates is always a treat. And I mean it.

Of course I'm a geek, I love this stuff.

[Howards Turn]

I wish i could vote.

Hey TCC do you reckon Rudy Giuliani really has a chance? I'm not sure enough voters in the primaries will be in a 'new york state of mind' as billy joel would say.

[Boss]

I wish i could vote.

Hey TCC do you reckon Rudy Giuliani really has a chance? I'm not sure enough voters in the primaries will be in a 'new york state of mind' as billy joel would say.

I think he has to be considered the "early" favorite for the Republicans. He has a lot of credibility in the areas where voters concerns will be focused, especially in terms of being tough on crime and terrorism. He's likely going to lose the conservative right though unless he comes up with a different spin since he does not entirely oppose abortion.

I only hope that people realize what a liar, flip-flopper, and horrible person Hillary is. Just listen to her answer the question, "Will you admit that your initial vote back in 2002 to send troops to Iraq was a mistake?" She flat out won't answer the question. She'll simply blame the President. Typical Democrat response. How soon they forget. They heard the same arguments, read the same intelligence and came to the same conclusions as the President prior to going to war, but unlike the President, they don't have the balls to accept responsibility or follow through to complete the job we started. Instead, they would rather waste taxpayer time and money by holding a non-binding referendum regarding the President sending additional troops to Iraq. Way to embolden the enemy you douchebags. If you want to look at the reason we may not win the war in Iraq, look no further than that. The Democrats cannot put the country or military first. They are only concerned about their political future. And Osama Bin Barack opened his trap long enough to put his size 12 in his grill saying, "3000 lives have been wasted in Iraq." If he back-peddled any faster, he could win the Tour de France in reverse.

I hope Aaron Burr keeps us informed and educated along the campaign trail. I love his take on the political scene.

[the deta]

:wtf: no etathed?

[Howards Turn]

And Osama Bin Barack opened his trap long enough to put his size 12 in his grill saying, "3000 lives have been wasted in Iraq." If he back-peddled any faster, he could win the Tour de France in reverse.

But Obama was involved in anti war protests before the war even began. He's always been publically opposed to it.

I find it funny when i hear political commentators say that Obama doesn't have enough experience. Yet Bush was elected and i think its fair to say that he couldn't have pointed to Afghanistan on a map before 9/11. I suppose experience and ignorance are two different things though.

I have to say i really enjoy the shit slinging come election time.

DRAFT DODGING OBAMA DID LSD IN COLLEGE

GUILIANI RUSHED FROM WIFES DEATH BED TO 3-WAY MOTEL GANGBANG

[nate]

GUILIANI RUSHED FROM WIFES DEATH BED TO 3-WAY MOTEL GANGBANG
Well then, he's got my vote!

[Howards Turn]

Nate Exposed In Coke Fuelled Dog Roadkill Sex Act Fiasco

[nate]

Nate Exposed In Coke Fuelled Dog Roadkill Sex Act Fiasco
Exposed?? The videos are on my website.

http://www.natecocks.com/

[aaron burr]

P.S. - i'd loooove to see Kinky make a run for it!

Even though he lost, the basic campaign organization was really good by today's standards. He really knew what the key was - if the voter turnout was increased, he'd have been a lock.

Probably too late now for him to enter the race (if you can believe that!). All his celebrity endorsements have joined either the Edwards (Ventura,etc.) or Kucinich (Willie Nelson, Bonnie Raitt,etc.) camps.

[Heap]

I vote for the candidate with the best looking daughter(s). I haven't done my research yet, and probably won't for a year and a half.

[AB]

I'm just going to wait and for whoever Glenn Beck tells me to! :dance:

[the deta]

P.S. - i'd loooove to see Kinky make a run for it!

Even though he lost, the basic campaign organization was really good by today's standards. He really knew what the key was - if the voter turnout was increased, he'd have been a lock.

Probably too late now for him to enter the race (if you can believe that!). All his celebrity endorsements have joined either the Edwards (Ventura,etc.) or Kucinich (Willie Nelson, Bonnie Raitt,etc.) camps.

Ventura, Nelson, Raitt?!?!?!? Oh PuhhhLEEEEEZe There is only one celebrity endorsement that matters to me.....



http://cdn-channels.netscape.com/gallery/i/p/pdiddy2/20041102_nan_k03_009.jpg

[aaron burr]

it'd be a way better shot if he had a gun in his hand!

"vote lest I pop a cap in yo' ass"

I wonder what kind of horrible campaign songs Bruce Springsteen is going to pinch off this cycle!



Ventura, Nelson, Raitt?!?!?!? Oh PuhhhLEEEEEZe There is only one celebrity endorsement that matters to me.....



http://cdn-channels.netscape.com/gallery/i/p/pdiddy2/20041102_nan_k03_009.jpg

[Boss]

I wonder what kind of horrible campaign songs Bruce Springsteen is going to pinch off this cycle!

No kidding. As if I didn't already hate him enough. Seriously, please name one person or band as overrated in the history of rock. Dave Matthews runs a close second.

[CommunistaCow]

I actually wanted to vote for Fred Thompson, but that lard-bucket Tommy was the only Thompson you listed.

[aaron burr]

No kidding. As if I didn't already hate him enough. Seriously, please name one person or band as overrated in the history of rock. Dave Matthews runs a close second.


that's a hard one! maybe Phish or the Eagles or Korn or the Stone Temple Toilets or the Smashing Pumpkins?


Getting back on the election thang, Rep. Ron Paul (TX-R) needs to be added to this list along with Sen. Mike Gravel (AK-D)...a Kinky fan, or the Libertarians here oughta know who Ron Paul is - a true maverick by definition.

[CommunistaCow]

Getting back on the election thang, Rep. Ron Paul (TX-R) needs to be added to this list along with Sen. Mike Gravel (AK-D)...a Kinky fan, or the Libertarians here oughta know who Ron Paul is - a true maverick by definition.

My father is a personal friend of Dr. Paul. He's actually a pretty decent guy, and one of the few truly honest people in Congress. Of course, the majority of Congress treats him like a leper.

[melon]

Hydrocephalics
For
Obama

[Dew]

I'm not saying this is right, because it's oh so wrong, but my bet is the GOP offers up McCain (P), Giuliani (VP) ticket to oppose the whoever gets the Dem. nod. I doubt it will be Hillary, Obama or Edwards all of whom I believe have to many strikes against them going into the election... Fuck em all anyway, the chinaman takeover is inevitable. :bowl: Haven't yall' seen Jericho? :pop:

[nate]

Ventura, Nelson, Raitt?!?!?!? Oh PuhhhLEEEEEZe There is only one celebrity endorsement that matters to me.....
I could only see the top half of your post and was suuuuuuure when I scrolled down it'd be a picture of youself.

[the deta]

lmao lmao lmao That would have been sweet.

[Boss]

Getting back on the election thang, Rep. Ron Paul (TX-R) needs to be added to this list along with Sen. Mike Gravel (AK-D)...a Kinky fan, or the Libertarians here oughta know who Ron Paul is - a true maverick by definition.

I like Ron Paul as well. I met him years ago. I didn't realize he was running for pres.


I actually wanted to vote for Fred Thompson, but that lard-bucket Tommy was the only Thompson you listed.

I've always liked Fred Thompson, as an actor and a Senator. I got to photograph him here in Houston back in about 1995 when he was making the corporate rounds collecting PAC checks. He's pretty intimidating in person, probably more so than any other politician I have ever met.

[CommunistaCow]

I like Ron Paul as well. I met him years ago. I didn't realize he was running for pres.



I've always liked Fred Thompson, as an actor and a Senator. I got to photograph him here in Houston back in about 1995 when he was making the corporate rounds collecting PAC checks. He's pretty intimidating in person, probably more so than any other politician I have ever met.

Fred Thompson was the only guy that made any sense during the Clinton impeachment process. And yes, he is very intimidating in person - the guy is the size of a wall, and the scour doesn't help.

[Boss]

Here's a video showing the genius that is Ron Paul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji_G0MqAqq8&NR

[Franks n Beans]

Been hearing a bit of Giuliani tonight. I like what he's saying.

[aaron burr]

Here's a video showing the genius that is Ron Paul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji_G0MqAqq8&NR

i LOVE Ron - he is courage, man.

here are two clips of Ron Paul's friend and Democratic counterpart:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RO9zk_iG1RY#

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XKfqsFLoUgQ#

the media is treating them both like SHIT, and I hate to see it. the only 2 politicians who aren;t in the back pockets of some lobbyists...

[Boss]

the media is treating them both like SHIT, and I hate to see it. the only 2 politicians who aren;t in the back pockets of some lobbyists...

That's what it's all about right there man. Professional lobbyists are flushing the political process down the drain and taking the entire country with them.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I don't know. I wouldn't be suprised if Hilary ends up picking Obama as her running mate after she's beaten him up a bit in the primary.

If it comes down to Guiliani vs. Hilary. New York is going to be the big factor state. However, Illinois is going to be a hot one as well. Lot's of conservative and liberal mindsets there. But if she picks Obama, then it would be a shoe-in as a blue state.

Hilary picking Edwards, wouldn't get the same result from the south. That was proven in the last election. the key for Hilary is to take all of the 13 colonies, the west coast, and all of the great lake states and Ohio.

If you add them up electorally, she'd win.

The key for Rudy, is to get the midwest, most the south, all of the southwest and not allow Hilary to take NY.

So I think Boss is right, NY is gonna be the catylist in this next election.

[CommunistaCow]

i LOVE Ron - he is courage, man.

here are two clips of Ron Paul's friend and Democratic counterpart:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RO9zk_iG1RY#

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XKfqsFLoUgQ#

the media is treating them both like SHIT, and I hate to see it. the only 2 politicians who aren;t in the back pockets of some lobbyists...

Good gawd, to compare that nutcase Kucinich to Ron Paul is both insulting and disingenuous. Dr. Paul is a strict constitutionalist, while Kucinich can best be described as a bed-wetting whiner living off of pure emotion.

[aaron burr]

Good gawd, to compare that nutcase Kucinich to Ron Paul is both insulting and disingenuous. Dr. Paul is a strict constitutionalist, while Kucinich can best be described as a bed-wetting whiner living off of pure emotion.

of course - that's why both their voting records are as similar as can be, they support each other across the aisle, have dedicated their services to unpopular causes, both are highly misunderstood and elicit knee jerk reactions from people, and both risked thier careers to keep their feet firmly planted on the ground for something they believed was right - only to be vindicated in the end.

With the exceptions of McCain (who sadly is bowing a little to evangelists, and minus some of the lobby dough he has taken), Sen. Gravel, Ron Paul, Chuck Hagel, and Kucinich, who have that list of contenders have ever really stood up for something without actually deciding to do outside of the realm of electoral fear?
Had the guts to ask questions and begin dialogue about things that aren't addressed, and get royally panned for it because it raises the ire of the parent companies that own each respective major news network?
And have to vote and act based on promised to their purchasers?

That's all i'm asking. No more politics for me here. No tail chasing.

[CommunistaCow]

of course - that's why both their voting records are as similar as can be, they support each other across the aisle, have dedicated their services to unpopular causes, both are highly misunderstood and elicit knee jerk reactions from people, and both risked thier careers to keep their feet firmly planted on the ground for something they believed was right - only to be vindicated in the end.

With the exceptions of McCain (who sadly is bowing a little to evangelists, and minus some of the lobby dough he has taken), Sen. Gravel, Ron Paul, Chuck Hagel, and Kucinich, who have that list of contenders have ever really stood up for something without actually deciding to do outside of the realm of electoral fear?
Had the guts to ask questions and begin dialogue about things that aren't addressed, and get royally panned for it because it raises the ire of the parent companies that own each respective major news network?
And have to vote and act based on promised to their purchasers?

That's all i'm asking. No more politics for me here. No tail chasing.

How in the hell can you include McLame and Hagel in your self-described definition of guts? McLame may be one of the most disingenuous politicos in recent memory - capping off that honor with the McCain/Feingold campaign finance reform joke. And Chuck Hagel is one of the most two-faced politicians in DC currently. Next to the PA asshelmet, Hagel positively redefines duplicity.

BTW, "electoral fear"? You might want to check out some of their constituencies before making that claim. Kucinich, in particular, totally plays to his leftist constituency. He may be sincere in his leanings, but that doesn't make him any saner than his constituency.

[aaron burr]

ok i'm game,honestly- you do think possess the qualities we are seeking?
I'm all ears, seriously. when it comes to politics, i'm always willing to listen. and I agree, that why I added the MCain caveat...there's too much literal crap he's pulled at others' expense. Bob Jones U too...gimme a break.
But who treads the highwires to get somewhere, in view of nobody?

Brownback? oh nonnono, his FCC knee bending is way too sickening. Romney the executioner/taxecutioner?
Newt Gingrich - too shortsighted to realize the gridlock he'd start would almost make it the first word people born in 1994 would utter.
Guiliani, lucky enough to have one of the best photo ops EVER, enough to exonerate him from his so-called "clean up" of NY streets?
Hilary is so paid for if she was in a biker gang she'd be chained to the mattress.
Barack Obama has the media so dazzled that they aren't even asking where HIS $ is coming from, while we do know.
Maybe John Edwards had a good thing happen to him by losing - it humbled him, so if we can forgive the Bar Association dollars flowing his way, but before he was Clinton as can be.

I'm not attacking any one of my fellow SFJ'ers politics, i'm just wanting to know what the criteria is for the list of ambitious to at least be afforded some more respect than others...and based on that it ultimately brings me, personally (which is irrelevent I know), back to Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich. But hey, y'know, that's just based on my fucked up world view.

[CommunistaCow]

Aaron, no need to take things personal. I think you're just talking apples and oranges. Paul and Kucinich may both be truly sincere about their personal integrity. But, as I've attempted to point out, if one's personal integrity is built upon emotional delusions and lies, does it really matter that one has "integrity"?

Gee, I guess Al Capone had integrity up the ass.

[Boss]

Man, this is great. You guys make politics fun. It's more interesting when you look at it as an open field. To answer Aaron's question of who? I have heard interesting things about Duncan Hunter, although he is an absolute unknown and doesn't stand a chance winning the right to run for the Pres., he could end up as a running mate for someone. Great stuff.

[CommunistaCow]

Man, this is great. You guys make politics fun. It's more interesting when you look at it as an open field. To answer Aaron's question of who? I have heard interesting things about Duncan Hunter, although he is an absolute unknown and doesn't stand a chance winning the right to run for the Pres., he could end up as a running mate for someone. Great stuff.

Boss, Hunter is kick-ass. He was Airborne in Vietnam, and his son just finished up a 2nd stint in Iraq. As such, the dumbs wouldn't be able to pull a Kerry ("reporting for duty").

In addition, along with Tancredo, he has been a big proponent of border security. Sadly, as you've pointed out, his name recognition would kill him.

Of course, if enough people in this country decide to wake up and take the place back, maybe we can overrule the media stranglehhold on the election process.

[aaron burr]

Aaron, no need to take things personal. I think you're just talking apples and oranges. Paul and Kucinich may both be truly sincere about their personal integrity. But, as I've attempted to point out, if one's personal integrity is built upon emotional delusions and lies, does it really matter that one has "integrity"?

Gee, I guess Al Capone had integrity up the ass.


aww heck if there's one thing i've learned it's not to take anything personally - especially in politics...

dang, i was trying to avoid making it sound personal.

I was being pragmatic (at aiming for it anyway).

I dunno man, i've pored through the records of Ron and seen no delusions or lies and everytime, he's been exonerated - which is why I connected him with Kucinich - same deal - from Muny Light (even the Cleveland Plain Dealer, which hates him with a passion, had to run a headline 'Dennis Was Right'), to the warnings and questions leading up to the war. It's all come to pass.


It's funny (honestly, not sarcastically) you mention Al Capone, because it's like discussing a group of Al Capones anyway.

But overall, the really big , in your face questions do need to be asked. The ones that fucking scare the shit out of people. The ones that people have never even thought of.

Every election cycle, the pundtwits always say "oooh, what a pivotal election" - this however, really really is one.

In a matter of months I'm gonna be one of those 'boys on the bus' hearing repeated stump speech ad nauseam, drinking crappy booze out of plastic cups, and eating stale triangular cut sammiches - trying to get *opinion empty* observations in on a deadline with 45 minutes sleep - and I love every second of it.
So it's good to gear up for it all with as much dialogue as possible (and do some of what I call "prep venting"), because amongst the network guys, well, their language is from a whole other world.

But the don't get their feet dirty. That said, i wanna know why people like X or Y and not have to hear it filtered through the network echo chamber...

All i know is, this whole primary system should be dispensed of and go back to the true convention style. David Brinkley was was right in his observations when he noted that whole shebang was undermining the democratic process (he done wroted a real good autobiography).

[aaron burr]

Of course, if enough people in this country decide to wake up and take the place back, maybe we can overrule the media stranglehhold on the election process.


right there - that's the key. and it leads to questions about media ownership and content analysis.
that bad boy needs scrutiny like never before.

I think any good constitutionalist would agree that people own the airwaves, not the corporations. That corporations should not be granted 'entity' status (thus living in perpetuity).

they rent, the people should benefit. and that needs to have some new light shone on it.

[Boss]

You're one of my favorite 'gloids of all time Aaron. You offer up such great viewpoints. Props.

[CommunistaCow]

"But overall, the really big , in your face questions do need to be asked. The ones that fucking scare the shit out of people. The ones that people have never even thought of."

Hmmm, like:

a. Getting rid of the national ponzi scheme called Social Security.
b. Protecting our borders.
c. Restoring states' rights as the Constitution dictated.
d. Getting the feds out of education. (Oops, that's c.)

Aaron, I do agree that we need to reform/abolish the primary process. In fact, I believe we need to convene a new Constitutional Congress. States voting to toss the Constitution can haul ass.

[aaron burr]

"But overall, the really big , in your face questions do need to be asked. The ones that fucking scare the shit out of people. The ones that people have never even thought of."

Hmmm, like:

a. Getting rid of the national ponzi scheme called Social Security.
b. Protecting our borders.
c. Restoring states' rights as the Constitution dictated.
d. Getting the feds out of education. (Oops, that's c.)

Aaron, I do agree that we need to reform/abolish the primary process. In fact, I believe we need to convene a new Constitutional Congress. States voting to toss the Constitution can haul ass.



exactly - ALL of it - it all needs to be not just looked at by "committee" who will "investigate it" and then "return with recommendations"...and then it's nicely bound, tucked away, and collects dust until it's put through the shredder to make room for another 20 years of "committees"..., but actually "shit or get off the pot" (as Nixon liked to claim that he said to Eisenhower re: the VP selection)...


action man! can't measure the efficacy of anything without action - there needs to be some kind of tangible on which to base an empirical assessment.

[CommunistaCow]

exactly - ALL of it - it all needs to be not just looked at by "committee" who will "investigate it" and then "return with recommendations"...and then it's nicely bound, tucked away, and collects dust until it's put through the shredder to make room for another 20 years of "committees"..., but actually "shit or get off the pot" (as Nixon liked to claim that he said to Eisenhower re: the VP selection)...


action man! can't measure the efficacy of anything without action - there needs to be some kind of tangible on which to base an empirical assessment.

I'll give you the greatest motivating factor for change - get rid of Congress' pension plan and put them on a defined contribution plan.

Lock this bitch down.

[where's the ice]

whew!
To get back on topic, I'm going for Giuliani


. He has the hawkish position on national security but isn't ultra-right on social issues. To me, that's a good formula.

[aaron burr]

ya know what TCCBoss? politics is fun!
ya just have to know how to approach it to make it fun.

i spent an afternoon in 2000 hanging out with LaRocuhe people letting them think I was into them / him...now THAT was fun too...

[Sledge Hammer!]

whew!
To get back on topic, I'm going for Giuliani


. He has the hawkish position on national security but isn't ultra-right on social issues. To me, that's a good formula.

My only problem with him is his liberal stance on illegal immigration.

[aaron burr]

great oddsmakers / poll website here for your enjoyment:

http://www.2008horserace.com

vote away!

[clvmike19]

I dont think McCain has a chance...can we say McCain-Feingold?!

Sorry John, 7 yrs in the Hanoi Hilton, years of "service" in the Senate, all thrown away by sponsoring one of the biggest infringements on our 1st Amendment rights in US history.

Douche.

[Boss]

ya know what TCCBoss? politics is fun!
ya just have to know how to approach it to make it fun.

i spent an afternoon in 2000 hanging out with LaRocuhe people letting them think I was into them / him...now THAT was fun too...

I've actually met and spent a little time with quite a few well-known politicians as well. Most of them were really decent and seemingly very genuine people. Especially Bob Dole and Bush Sr. I spent about two hours with Bob Dole, coincidentally the same night I saw Ken Lay at the same event (it was the week that the Enron scandal hit, kinda creepy). Dole was a riot. At one point I was on an elevator with him while he was telling Viagra jokes. I've been around George Sr and Barb on a number of occasions. I have lots of stories to tell about those two. He's one of the nicest people I've ever met and she is hysterical and pretty much runs the show.

A few others I've had the pleasure (or not) to meet speak to, etc.

John Kasich - Pompous, self-important asshole
Fred Thompson - Very dark, serious and intimidating in person, but I like him
John Ashcroft - Very personable and likable. Comes across as very kind and sincere.
Jesse Jackson - The biggest phony, fake, self-delusional person I've ever encountered.
Phil Graham - Really nice, but he seemed a million miles away.
Rick Perry - I have nothing nice to say
Pres Bush Jr - Absolutely magnetic in person. People are drawn to him and he can work a room like nothing I have ever seen.
Pres Bush Sr - A huge heart
John Cornyn - Was not impressed. He thinks he's something special.
Jimmy Carter - Pretty much a shit head in person.
Gerald Ford - Probably one of the people on the list I respect the most. Very sincere.

There's many more, but those are the standouts. I would love to hear all of your war stories about the politcos you've interviewed over the years. I bet you have some doozies.

[aaron burr]

I dont think McCain has a chance...can we say McCain-Feingold?!

Sorry John, 7 yrs in the Hanoi Hilton, years of "service" in the Senate, all thrown away by sponsoring one of the biggest infringements on our 1st Amendment rights in US history.

Douche.


i agree - don't forget he *just* squeaked by the Keating 5 fiasco...

I have to say, his 'campaign book' (because that's really what it's 1999 release was),'Faith of My Fathers' isn't a bad read as far as campaign books go...the elaborations and epiphanies he shares during his 5y 7m's in a POW camp is illuminating...

but if you want to read about the Annapolis grad class that included Poindexter, North, McCain, Jim Webb, and Bob MacFarlane - The Nightingale's Song (by Robert Timberg, 1994) complements the read on McCain quite nicely. It at least ullustrates that McCain's candour and development based on his experiences is real, rather than manufactured for campaign purposes solely.

Of course, always read those campaign books with some skepticism.

Best one: Mo Udall (1975) 'Too Funny To Be President'. A great character and just may have made a great president. And what a political family - i son't think there is one male member in 3 generations that hasn't served in Congress or Senate, either ind., R, or D (and one even ran and won as a Libertarian). Quite a unique family.

[Dr. P]

Man, if there was ever a time for the Dems to get it together, it's now. I just noticed Bush is down to 8 friends on MySpace, and that includes Tom, who's everybody's automatic friend.
http://i16.tinypic.com/2aheg6o.gif

[Jdiggity Dee]

Lookie Edwards has a halo.
http://i.today.reuters.com/pictures/galleries/Stories/633003715863906250/Previews/MDF3762559.jpg

[CommunistaCow]

Lookie Edwards has a halo.
http://i.today.reuters.com/pictures/galleries/Stories/633003715863906250/Previews/MDF3762559.jpg

Talk about a phony, self-important pile of crap. Come on Breck-boy, tell us again how Christopher Reeve is going to jump out of his wheelchair. Effin' idiot.

BTW Boss, I had the pleasure of meeting Reagan when I was soph in HS, then again while I was in college. The guy was absolutely larger than life, but he treated every one of us like longtime friends. A truly winderful person.

[Boss]

Ron Paul is expected to announce his candidacy on Monday. Question, will he run as a Libertarian again?

[Franks n Beans]

hmm 2 members viewing this thread but my name is the only one showing...

[PeggyLove]

hmm 2 members viewing this thread but my name is the only one showing...

:pop:

[aaron burr]

Ron Paul is expected to announce his candidacy on Monday. Question, will he run as a Libertarian again?


*if* he does, he'll be doing it as a Republican.

damn if only the 2 party system weren't so entrenched.

[Boss]

Here's a great op-ed piece about the lefty dems getting their panties in a wad over the proposed Fox News debate.


EDITORIAL: Meltdown over Fox

Network co-sponsors state Democratic debate -- oh my!

Hard-core liberals can't stand the Fox News Channel. Passing a television that's tuned to the conservative favorite forces many of them to close their eyes, cover their ears and scream, "La la la la la la la la la!" Then they dash to their computers and fire off 2,500 e-mails condemning the outlet, none of which are ever read.

But liberals' aversion to Fox News has finally gone over the top. The Nevada Democratic Party had agreed to let the right-tilting network co-sponsor, of all things, an August debate in Reno between Democratic presidential candidates. Party officials were serious about drawing national attention to the state's January presidential caucus, the country's second in the 2008 nominating process. What better way for the party to reach conservative and "values" voters who might consider changing allegiances?
Advertisement



But the socialist, Web-addicted wing of the Democratic Party was apoplectic. The prospect of having to watch Fox News to see their own candidates would have been torture in itself. So they set the blogosphere aflame with efforts to kill the broadcast arrangement, or at least have all the candidates pull out of the event. Before Friday, the opportunistic John Edwards was the only candidate to jump on that bandwagon.

You'd think the deal called for having Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter mock the candidates between comments. No, even unfiltered, unedited, live debate between loyal Democrats couldn't be entrusted to Fox News.

The approach of outfits such as MoveOn.org is so juvenile it's laughable. Imagine if every political organization created litmus tests for news organizations before agreeing to appear on their programming. Republicans would have boycotted PBS, CBS, NBC, ABC, National Public Radio and The Associated Press decades ago.

This hyperventilation results from the fact that far-left Democrats have no comparable media outlet, nor any widespread national appeal, for their radical views in favor of heavy-handed regulation, wealth redistribution, diplomatic capitulation and economic protectionism. So they attack their rivals' messenger with a reckless barrage of rhetoric that cuts down their own allies with friendly fire.

By Friday, the Nevada Democratic Party caved in to the lunatic fringe and beganseeking a more "appropriate" television partner.

Comedy Central, perhaps?

Link (http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2007/Mar-10-Sat-2007/opinion/13078877.html)

[GoblinJuice]

Tancredo (http://www.teamtancredo.com/).

[Industrial Trackfooter]

I'm thinkin Giuliani. I saw Brownback on C-Span a few months ago. It looked like a meet and greet type deal. While being introduced to someone with I guess Down's Syndrome, Brownback seemed incredibly artificial. He didn't appear to be looking anyone in the eye, but just an inch or two above, then made a hasty exit. I guess that's politics.

Obama's got a long future ahead of him. Ironically, he reminds me of Joe Biden. He says nothing at all, and sounds fantastic saying it.

[moneymaker]

Fred Thompson if he runs. :tipofthecap:

[CommunistaCow]

Obama's got a long future ahead of him. Ironically, he reminds me of Joe Biden. He says nothing at all, and sounds fantastic saying it.

Too funny, yet so true. Did you happen to get a glimpse of mighty Joe on the senate floor Wednesday? The arrogant douche actually used the word "malarkey".

Crap, the greatest nation on the planet, and this is the best we have?

[TheWagesofSin]

Man, a lot of support for Giuliani here. I wonder why. Is it because he used a bullhorn and actually did his job on 9/11? How can you Republicans out there support him? He's about as left-leaning as a Republican can get. And he's a wop.


I don't get it.

[Franks n Beans]

When given the choices as above, gotta pick someone. Right?

[aaron burr]

Obama's got a long future ahead of him. Ironically, he reminds me of Joe Biden. He says nothing at all, and sounds fantastic saying it.



BINGO! - nice allusion. I remember thinking the same thing from the floor of the DNC, looking around at fellow press people asking, "why are you drooling..."

[Pull Out Method]

Where is the option for Hole?

[Hole In Face]

Where is the option for Hole?


2012.... :tipofthecap:

[CommunistaCow]

2012.... :tipofthecap:

So, I'm guessing your campaign slogan will be "A Jew in Every Pot".

[moneymaker]

Man, a lot of support for Giuliani here. I wonder why. Is it because he used a bullhorn and actually did his job on 9/11? How can you Republicans out there support him? He's about as left-leaning as a Republican can get. And he's a wop.


I don't get it.

Wages, it' official: We now have an accord. I don't get it either. Giuliani did a great job cleaning up NYC, but other than that....???? Can he even really be called a Republican? Wop, yes, GOP material, NO.

[moneymaker]

So, I'm guessing your campaign slogan will be "A Jew in Every Pot".

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r99/Drunkybear/jew.jpg

[CommunistaCow]

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r99/Drunkybear/jew.jpg

Throw in a swastika and you'd be gold! :thumbsup:

[Hole In Face]

Did MM part my hair? :wtf: :rofl:

[123 Ass Kick Street]

I wanna change my vote. If Fred Thompson runs for president, he's getting my vote.

[Boss]

Reagan Library Debate

Congressman Ron Paul has accepted Nancy Reagan's invitation to participate in a presidential debate to be held at the Reagan Presidential Library on May 3, 2007. MSNBC will moderate and televise the 90-minute debate starting at 5:00 p.m. ET. The debate will also be simulcast by politico.com to give citizens the opportunity to submit questions online.


Go get 'em Ron.

[nate]

Douche Alert.

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2007/03/mccain-doesnt-know-if-condoms-help-stop.html


There are so many reasons John McCain should not be President. But an interaction with a reporter today on his Not-So-Straight Talk bus pretty much confirmed it.

McCain was stumped by a very simple question -- a question that can be answered with a modicum of research. He was stumped by a question that can mean the difference between life and death. He was stumped by a question that every responsible adult in American should know the answer to. He doesn't know if condoms can help stop the spread of HIV. Seriously:

Q: “What about grants for sex education in the United States? Should they include instructions about using contraceptives? Or should it be Bush’s policy, which is just abstinence?”

Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “Ahhh. I think I support the president’s policy.”

Q: “So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence. Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?”

Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “You’ve stumped me.”

Q: “I mean, I think you’d probably agree it probably does help stop it?”

Mr. McCain: (Laughs) “Are we on the Straight Talk express? I’m not informed enough on it. Let me find out. You know, I’m sure I’ve taken a position on it on the past. I have to find out what my position was. Brian, would you find out what my position is on contraception – I’m sure I’m opposed to government spending on it, I’m sure I support the president’s policies on it.”

Q: “But you would agree that condoms do stop the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. Would you say: ‘No, we’re not going to distribute them,’ knowing that?”

Mr. McCain: (Twelve-second pause) “Get me Coburn’s thing, ask Weaver to get me Coburn’s paper that he just gave me in the last couple of days. I’ve never gotten into these issues before.”

Could John McCain be this much of an idiot? Could he be so stupid about basic health policy? Could he be so beholden to the theocrats that he wouldn't answer such an obvious question?

Whatever the answer, John McCain shouldn't be President.

[Sledge Hammer!]

Who woulda thunk it?

http://news.aol.com/elections/president/story/_a/jesse-jackson-endorses-obama-for/20070329234909990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

[Don Berman]

I am voting Raptor in 2008!

[AB]

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3047/idal5.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[aaron burr]

^^^^i love it!

anyone see the SouthPark / 911 / Dookie in the Urinal episode recently...cripes they are genius. I can't wait to see the Hillary Clinton episode. IF she wins, that's 23 years of the U.S. being ruled by 2 families. Nice.

[clvmike19]

Vote Cthulhu!

[Jdiggity Dee]

Off Drudge, an Australian comedy show sends someone to offer to be Sen. Clinton's intern

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BOMOVV2pf0

worthwhile!!

[Boss]

Another insightful interview with Ron Paul. I agree with much of his platform, although as much as I would like to see the US not providing security and police efforts for much of the world, I don't know that removing troops in every foreign country makes sense.

LINK (http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070414/OPINION01/704140310/1035/OPINION)


Texas Congressman Ron Paul sounds like a liberal when he bemoans the growth of the military-industrial complex. And he sounds like a conservative when he puts down bureaucrats and big government.

Wearing black sneakers for his meeting with the Register editorial board, Paul walks a different philosophic path than the other candidates in the presidential race. He was the1988 presidential nominee for the Libertarian Party, but is running this time for the Republican nomination. The strong Libertarian streak remains, though. He champions individual rights, limited government and low taxes.

His beliefs may tread the edge of mainstream thought, but he doesn't harangue. Indeed, almost everything about him appears understated: dark-gray suit, gray-patterned tie and his hands folded in front of him for most of the meeting. A slight man, he gets a twinkle in his eyes and the pitch of his voice rises with incredulity as he recounts government excesses.

The federal No Child Left Behind law, pushed by President Bush, "essentially doubles the size of the Department of Education," he said. "Do you think that's going to help the students? No, it entrenches the bureaucrats."

He's dismayed by the notion that fighting terrorism demands erosion of civil liberties.

"I don't feel safer by yielding up our freedoms. I think we're less safe because of our foreign policy." Then he chuckled. "That's what worries me."

At times he grins almost impishly. It's as if he can't believe his own government is so foolhardy, and he wants to make sure his audience recognizes the absurdity.

"The claim is ... that they attack us because we're free and prosperous," he said. "I don't think that's the reason at all. I think they tell the truth when they say, 'We don't like you over in our face, putting military troops on our soil, which we consider sacred territory and holy land.'"

He would disentangle from foreign engagements, withdrawing troops not only from Iraq but also from South Korea and Europe and paring other spending by the defense and state departments.

"Why does this country have to spend more money on the military than any other country in the world, and there's not one single country capable of, nor thinking of, attacking us?" he asked.

He would use the savings for transitional payments to shift away from government-funded entitlements - Social Security, Medicare - and toward individual savings accounts to pay for retirement and health care.

Paul has seen health care up close. He's a doctor, specializing in obstetrics and gynecology. His Web site says he's delivered more than 4,000 babies.

Government distortion of the marketplace has "manufactured" many of the problems in health care, including the large number of uninsured people, he contended.

"No one sits around and says, 'How are we going to get poor people computers and telephone and television sets,' they just end up getting them, because the market helps provide, when there's an incentive," he said. "Those prices are driven down. But when you get the government involved, and there's subsidies, and there's pressure on housing, education and medicine, even with improved technology, prices go up."

Paul is an experienced public servant, serving more than 16 years in Congress, in three stints. He's also an avid walker and prefers comfortable shoes after knee surgery (hence the walking shoes).

He says he's in the race to win. And he's convinced his distinctive message will resonate with voters. But he's been around enough to know he's got a long walk ahead.

- Carol Hunter

[CommunistaCow]

Boss, my father is a good friend of Ron Paul, so I've got at least a modicum of insight into the guy. He truly is a decent, well-meaning person. But, while I also agree with much of his platform, several of his major stances are a bit pollyannish.

[Bob's Big Boy]

I wanna change my vote. If Fred Thompson runs for president, he's getting my vote.

Those big puss sacks under his eyes look very scary...

[Boss]

Boss, my father is a good friend of Ron Paul, so I've got at least a modicum of insight into the guy. He truly is a decent, well-meaning person. But, while I also agree with much of his platform, several of his major stances are a bit pollyannish.

I absolutely agree. He still might be one of the best candidates for the job. Certainly an interesting consideration since he's not a party hard-liner.

[Grandmaster B]

I'm voting for Sewell & Bellhaven!

[the deta]

Well the first debate is on MSNBC in about an hour. Anyone going to watch, i might tune in for a bit. You should see the "Pre debate" show. Its like College Gameday. There are marching bands and cheerleaders there and a whole bunch of fans carrying signs and things of that nature.

[where's the ice]

Well the first debate is on MSNBC in about an hour. Anyone going to watch, i might tune in for a bit. You should see the "Pre debate" show. Its like College Gameday. There are marching bands and cheerleaders there and a whole bunch of fans carrying signs and things of that nature.


Who's in the debate, the republicans or the democrats?

[the deta]

The democrats.

[TheWagesofSin]

Who's in the debate, the republicans or the democrats?

homosaywhat

[the deta]

Oh man this has gotten good! Kucinich, Obama and Mike Gravel have gotten into it a bit over nuclear weapons.

This gravel guy is hardcore, he is about as left as anyone up there but he's got fire in his belly, and i like that! He is pounding his fists and swearing, classic! lmao lmao

[Jdiggity Dee]

I've been caught unawares by this debate, I didn't even know they were starting this soon. I expected more hoopla and skywriting beforehand.

[aaron burr]

the Obama confrontation smackdown by Gravel and Kucinich was great - Obama is a player and an opportunist weasel - i just listen to the interview i did with him in 2004 as well as his DNC address, and he's as Clintonesque as Clinton - typical "third way Dick Morris triangulation theory" crap.

Gravel was treated like crap by the mods (Williams and Stanton) where he is the only one with any REAL experience as a lawmaker and a historymaker...the debates will get good if the pleasantries are put aside...

THE REPUBLICAN debate is next week - and that should be a good un too. I justfinished rereading Hilllary's Living History recently as well as McCain's 1999 book - and at least he's honest in comparison to her...except for hsi recent attempts to placate the Chri$tians...

PROBLEM with the debates: with SO MANY planned, they should only stick to one topic per debate rather than let them cherrypick and say "i'd like to go back to the previous questions asked of XXXX"...

Edwards 28 seconds of silence when asked who his "moral leader" was was priceless..jeeez so few of them have any guts or true convictions to stand on, it makes me sick.

[Jdiggity Dee]

^^^Jeez, I'm sorry I missed it. Do you know if it's available online anywhere?

[the deta]

^^^Jeez, I'm sorry I missed it. Do you know if it's available online anywhere?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18296908/

[Jdiggity Dee]

:tipofthecap:

[the deta]

the Obama confrontation smackdown by Gravel and Kucinich was great - Obama is a player and an opportunist weasel - i just listen to the interview i did with him in 2004 as well as his DNC address, and he's as Clintonesque as Clinton - typical "third way Dick Morris triangulation theory" crap.

Gravel was treated like crap by the mods (Williams and Stanton) where he is the only one with any REAL experience as a lawmaker and a historymaker...the debates will get good if the pleasantries are put aside...

THE REPUBLICAN debate is next week - and that should be a good un too. I justfinished rereading Hilllary's Living History recently as well as McCain's 1999 book - and at least he's honest in comparison to her...except for hsi recent attempts to placate the Chri$tians...

PROBLEM with the debates: with SO MANY planned, they should only stick to one topic per debate rather than let them cherrypick and say "i'd like to go back to the previous questions asked of XXXX"...

Edwards 28 seconds of silence when asked who his "moral leader" was was priceless..jeeez so few of them have any guts or true convictions to stand on, it makes me sick.

I agree on all counts! I know nothing about that gravel dude, who i am not familiar with... but he sure as hell was the most entertaining up there. His best line was, while pointing at the other candidates, "THESE PEOPLE SCARE THE HELL OUTTA ME!!!!"

The MSNBC poll has obama getting the best of the event. Im surprised that Edwards got better rankings than Clinton. But the best thing about the poll, Like the debate, is Gravel. Look at that pic! Dude is the spitting image of an older Lewis Black!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18300340

[buddickman]

Rudy Rude ai Rude a

[PhilsMyIdol]

Run Fred, run! Call me a Fred Head. I vote for Fred Dalton Thompson '08!

[uatu13]

I'm voting for Earl Handbag. He knows all about boogies and terrorists and the environment and women and 9-11 and everything. Put him in the office and let's get this show on the road! :sheep:

[Jdiggity Dee]

I think Kucinich is a bit of a nutter but he's got good taste in attractive women.

http://www.offrampbums.com/kucinich.jpg

[aaron burr]

i looove that look on his face. it says "yeah, you go ahead and right your short jokes and tin foil hat comments...and I get to go home and take it out on THIS..."

he's 60, she's 25..."back of the net, baby!"

[Dr. P]

A little more (25 pounds) meat on those bones and I'd faint.


I agree that Denny K. is a "nutter," but I'll say this much for him: he's genuine. I disagree with most of his stances, but I admire his honesty. I wish more politicians would just say what they really think.

[aaron burr]

i just wanna know what those brown and pink smudges are on the dress? is that some wierd side effect from being vegan?

[Jdiggity Dee]

Russy, by the way, she's is on myspace.

[Jdiggity Dee]

Mitt Romney says his favorite novel is Battleship Earth, the scientology novel by L.Ron Hubbard. Whaaa.


Mitt’s new flip-flop is out of this world
By Jessica Heslam
Boston Herald Media Reporter
Wednesday, May 2, 2007 - Updated: 02:50 AM EST

Already under scrutiny for shifting positions on key issues and his Mormon faith, presidential hopeful Mitt Romney has made a bizarre new flip flop - saying on national TV his favorite novel is Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard’s “Battleship Earth.”
The former Massachusetts governor told Fox News his favorite book was the Bible but his favorite novel was the science fiction tome “Battleship Earth.”
“Actually, the one by L. Ron Hubbard,” Romney said when asked to name his favorite novel. “I’m not in favor of his religion by any means, but he wrote a book called ‘Battlefield Earth’ that was a very fun science fiction book.”
The Mark Twain novel “Huckleberry Finn” tops the book list on Romney’s My Space page. “Battlefield Earth” isn’t on the list.
Romney spokesman Eric Fehrnstrom said: “Battlefield Earth is pretty good science fiction. It’s about Earth being ruled by an alien race, sort of the way the Democrats are running Congress.”
But Stephen Prothero, head of Boston University’s religion department and the author of “Religious Literacy,” noted Romney’s Mormonism could be a stumbling block with some voters.
“Mormonism sounds like a science fiction fantasy to some Americans,” Prothero said. “It seems one of the burdens of his campaign is to present an image of Mormonism that sounds more reasonable and less fantastic. This seems to be undercutting that effort.”
Paul Watanabe, a political science professor at the University of Massachusetts at Boston, said Romney will get Tom Cruise and John Travolta’s votes. The Hollywood heavyweights are devotees of the controversial Church of Scientology and Travolta starred in the movie version of “Battlefield Earth,” seen by some as one of the worst movies ever made, about an alien invasion in the year 3000.
“Mitt Romney has a penchant for saying something to appeal to every possible constituency and it appears that he is including Scientology in that orbit,” Watanabe said.
Michael Goldman, a Democratic consultant with the Government Insight Group, chalked it up to one of those “mind blips” that happens in campaigns, but he said the “Battlefield Earth” revelation will hurt Romney. “It’s such a bizarre choice. We don’t necessarily want our president to be Albert Einstein but we don’t want people to make fun of our president either,” Goldman said. In addition to his literary choices, Romney has also been slammed for changing positions on abortion and gay rights.

http://news.bostonherald.com/politics/view.bg?articleid=198006

[Heap]

Barack Obama, moron (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8P0K1FG2&show_article=1)

[Jdiggity Dee]

^^^linkie of youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc_WKBymCEY


--------
And this howler from the Dem Pres Debate. Yep Call FEMA if 2 U.S. cities are hit by terrorists:

MR. WILLIAMS: Time has expired. Thank you, Congressman.

Senator Obama, if, God forbid a thousand times, while we were gathered here tonight, we learned that two American cities had been hit simultaneously by terrorists, and we further learned beyond the shadow of a doubt it had been the work of al Qaeda, how would you change the U.S. military stance overseas as a result?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, the first thing we'd have to do is make sure that we've got an effective emergency response, something that this administration failed to do when we had a hurricane in New Orleans. And I think that we have to review how we operate in the event of not only a natural disaster, but also a terrorist attack.

The second thing is to make sure that we've got good intelligence, A, to find out that we don't have other threats and attacks potentially out there; and B, to find out do we have any intelligence on who might have carried it out so that we can take potentially some action to dismantle that network.

But what we can't do is then alienate the world community based on faulty intelligence, based on bluster and bombast. Instead, the next thing we would have to do, in addition to talking to the American people, is making sure that we are taling to the international community.

Because as has already been stated, we're not going to defeat terrorists on our own. We've got to strengthen our intelligence relationships with them, and they've got to feel a stake in our security by recognizing that we have mutual security interests at stake.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/27/us/politics/27debate_transcript.html?ei=5070&en=3c574c4e9f41d3a3&ex=1178942400&pagewanted=all

[Jdiggity Dee]

Unbelievable clip off youtube wherein Senator John McCain more or less says approve the illegal alien amnesty or we'll have riots in the streets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdyVwmZYUBc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fhotair%2Ecom%2Farchives%2F2007%2 F06%2F05%2Fvideo%2Dmccain%2Dsays%2Dreform%2Dor%2Dr iots%2F

[WissNX-01]

This poll sucks, no Fred Thompson.

[The Dude]

This poll sucks, no Fred Thompson.

Move over Rachel Ray, there a new kitchen bitch in town!

[Boss]

This poll sucks, no Fred Thompson.

If you'd look at when it was created, there was not even a whiff of Fred Thompson in the air. Go stink up some other forum you little bitch.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/3306/vagisilwissnx1gc0.jpg

[CommunistaCow]

Updates for this week:

1. Obama basically calls for a race riot.
2. PIAPS states that it was her faith in God that saved her marriage.
3. McCain calls all those opposed to the senate immigration bill bigots and idiots.
4. Fred Thompson kind of threw his hat in the ring - I think.
5. Edwards campaigned with Danny Glover.
6. Romney effectively nuked his own campaign.

Good gawd, we're fucking doomed. :angry:

[nate]

That's why you should vote for Ron Paul. Booyah.

[aaron burr]

Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich on a third party ticket all the way!

I know you all think I'm a nutjob, but they are simply the 2 best candidates seen since 1976. Excepting Gary Hart.


And this repubs constant conjuring and ill informed crediting of Ronald Reagan sickens me. He was as much worm food alive as is he is dead. And normally I have at least some respect for the 'passed', but good fucking riddance to that piece of shit "legacy".

[nate]

Sacreliege! The gods of Reagan will spite you.

[Cliff Pettigrew]

Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich on a third party ticket all the way!

I know you all think I'm a nutjob, but they are simply the 2 best candidates seen since 1976. Excepting Gary Hart.


And this repubs constant conjuring and ill informed crediting of Ronald Reagan sickens me. He was as much worm food alive as is he is dead. And normally I have at least some respect for the 'passed', but good fucking riddance to that piece of shit "legacy".

JEEEEEEESUSSSS! What happened? Did he fuck your mom in front of you? or did you find out later when your little brother started every sentence with "well". :poke:

[valis]

JEEEEEEESUSSSS! What happened? Did he fuck your mom in front of you? or did you find out later when your little brother started every sentence with "well". :poke:

I volunteered for the Ron Paul campaign back when he ran for the Libertarian party. That was 1988 when he narrowly lost to Reagan. I even took his running mate, Andre' Marrou (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Marrou)out to dinner when he made an appearance in my town. He was on a call in political show on public access TV and nobody called!:wtf:

I had a lot of respect for him at the time but have since realized that third party runs are a bigger racket than the two major parties. That and his inability to shift his foreign policy thinking after 9/11.

[Grandmaster B]

Reagan didn't run for president in 1988.

Boy are you stupid.

[valis]

Reagan didn't run for president in 1988.

Boy are you stupid.

Oh yeah it was Bush.

IRYG, so there.

[Franks n Beans]

Ha! FU Voted for Hillary!

[Dr. P]

Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich on a third party ticket all the way!

I know you all think I'm a nutjob...
No, I think you are a socialist.


And this repubs constant conjuring and ill informed crediting of Ronald Reagan sickens me. He was as much worm food alive as is he is dead. And normally I have at least some respect for the 'passed', but good fucking riddance to that piece of shit "legacy".

There are a number of stances he took I disagree with: strict drug laws, utter lack of AIDS research, militant treatment of university anti-war protesters (as governor), Iran-Contra scandal...
But to deny his impact on this county's military and economic well-being is asinine. His supply side economics revitalized America. Tax cuts bolster an economy every time they are implemented, and he understood that. I only wish he'd have taken it farther and eliminated the IRS. His policy crushed the Soviet Union and communistic regimes worldwide. Had Carter remained in office, Gorbachev would've never risen to power to end the cold war. Eastern Europe was fast on it's way to full communist rule, when Gorbachev began embracing free-markets. But that wasn't enough. Reagan's public speech at the Berlin Wall telling him to "tear down this wall!" was as historic as Churchill's "we will fight them on the beaches." The INF treaty eliminated an entire class of nuclear weaponry. It's frightening to ponder Alzheimer's disease affecting a sitting president and what could have happened. But what did happen was the greatest presidency of my lifetime. I won't resort to the Canadian card or low-blows for you calling him "Worm food when alive" or all the vile shit you want to spew. You're just wrong on this one.

[KungFuJesus]

Ha! FU Voted for Hillary!

:rofl:

[nate]

lol lol

[Industrial Trackfooter]

Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich on a third party ticket all the way!

I know you all think I'm a nutjob, but they are simply the 2 best candidates seen since 1976. Excepting Gary Hart.


And this repubs constant conjuring and ill informed crediting of Ronald Reagan sickens me. He was as much worm food alive as is he is dead. And normally I have at least some respect for the 'passed', but good fucking riddance to that piece of shit "legacy".

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5408/ronaldreagan002dq7.jpg

You just made the list buddy.

Seriously though, your credibility just took a lot of damage with that one.

[aaron burr]

i agree that I made credibility open for a broadside. one should always remember to qualify a p.o.v., even it borders on ad hominem. it was definitely a knee jerk response. (so if I ever decide to offer a vociferous attack in the future, i'll be sure to rectify it)

but i will say this - i don't think it's entirely unreasonable. Bear in mind that the policies of these running men and women (who evoke his name as justification in their own run for the White House) play an important factor in the lives of not only the citizens of the country, but the lives of people that would otherwise never intersect with western civilization. To have had a negative (and again) knee jerk reaction to these viewpoints presented in the mainstream for public consumption and scrutiny is natural for many.

The year is 2007 and potential leaders of the free world are reduced to responding to "if you believe in evolution, raise your hand"? Mr. Franklin, Mr. Jefferson, Mr. Paine - your responses please?

Educated persons continue to debate issues that should have no bearing on the legislative process (but will). Whether it's Brownback grossly misquoting Martin Luther ("Here I am, I can do no other.") or Barack Obama missing the point entirely as he quotes Isaac Newton ("I stand on the shoulders of giants."), the fact is that 27 years on, the lowest common denominator continues to ascend and draw the political sphere into it's downward trajectory. Admittedly Reagan is not solely to blame for this, but like Margaret Thatcher or Pat Robertson, they are strong symbols - even touchstones - for the undebated and unspoken continuance of this movement.

As an aside, it's as though Spinoza, Descartes, Galileo, Aristottle, et al never even existed and that there is no previous tradition of reason from which to build. It is entirely logical to posit that such men might today even face persecution not only in the court of public opinion but in courts of law. It wasn't really so long ago that Lenny Bruce died from "an overdose of police", as Newsweek put it. And it is even a current affair that John Denver had to sit before a Senate Committee hearing defending lyrics to a song that would have certainly destroyed the careers of all people using words. These would be the people who run counter to Reagan's favoured and lauded Moral Majority.

Much of the currrent continental and international political climate stems from the unquestioned reverence of that recent micro epoch which brazenly reintroduced the ideas of state intervention of sovereign nations (which ultimately was economic self interest or hegemony couched in the idea of "exporting freedom"), to state intervention of peoples' private lives - perpetuating the agenda of very creepy charlatans whether it be Jerry Falwell, Tipper Gore, Strom Thurmond, or Sum Myung Moon.
These are definitely not the principles of small government as primetime stump-talk preaches, unless of course small government is to be a metaphor for the "tiny voice" in once's head that directs conscience.

The well crafted ascension of the Republican Party and Ronald Reagan was a culmination of fantastic triangulation and study on the part of their strategists. And such credit could be easily left at that if it wasn't for the fact that the world view espoused by these same strategists-cum policy makers come to the detriment of so many innocent people.

The War on Drugs, the intermission in the Cold War, the economic policies of the IMF, World Bank, GATT/NAFTA, IRS or Treasury Departments, the training and exporting of murderous tactics from Latin American death squads or Afghani mujahedeen in such petri dishes as the School of the Americas, and the standard operating procedure (not ideology - this comes later) that the planet is split into two neatly and easily defined camps (though the defintions, alignments, and allies can always be retroactively altered to justify various applications). The period of 1980-84 is regarded as the jumping off point in which to *respond* to the new sets of challenges.

One of these immediate new challenges is that the actions of coalition endorsed support of the Afhan mujahdeen (this supporting coalition included Iran, Syria, and Turkey in concert with France, and the U.K.) that was to contribute to an erosion of Soviet sphere influence in Arab countries, and left absolutely no strategy to deal with "blowback". The very same "blowback" in Uganda, Somalia, Angola, Haiti, Panama, etc. - despite, for example, the very respectable public Richard Clarke's dire warnings.

On the surface it is an ethnocentric and dated modus operandi in facing the transitory acts on the world stage. Under the surface, it is a cynical, manipulative, and revealing peek into the way that the G8 countries have decided to apply this rather unflexible "value set" and application of the principles of "Just Cause".
As Richard Nixon wrote in his 1980 book 'The Real War', and just like people from Robert Novak to David Broder walked in lock step to this notion, it is a call for the "continued application and redefining" of the "glorious goals" of the "Monroe Doctrine and Manifest Destiny."

I'm going to stop here, because nobody wants to read any of this anyway - least of all from a dilletante hack journalist.

There is certainly much more to write on the subject - and one can also draw similar parallels to the demagoguery of other contemporary frauds whether it be the 'Mahatma' Ghandi, Khomeni, JFK, or even someone such as Bill Clinton (who continued to draw on the Reagan tradition in both practice and manipulation).

This is an important angle to understand - the demagoguery of Ronald Reagan. Not only is it now an industry well entrenched in the continuance of the misuse of definitions of 'conservative' and 'liberal' (truly, in WTO applications there is more in common than in contradiction), but I have to reiterate that the benevolent, grandfatherly countenance of a brand name goes a long way in making it very easy to avoid applying any critical thought to what Reagan actually represents, and assists the ever expanding government in eroding the very foundations that have been integral to the contributions many have previously had the freedom to make with respect to public dialogue.

Before someone decides to call me a traitor or an apologist for those who decide actions against us are justified , please bear in mind that those who would find solace in the teachings of the Qu'ran, and it's attendant hadithas, are following a religion that is tantamount to plagiarism - a cobbled together system that isn't dissimilar to that of Mormonism. They are as misguided as those who would stand on the other side of the pitch and declare "my god is bigger than your god!"

[nate]

That post suuuure is long.

[Heap]

It sure is. I read it twice. Only 'cause I've got some time to kill at work, and workin' ain't really killin time right now.

[aaron burr]

That post suuuure is long.

yeah i apologize for that - but since i do concede that i made something akin to an ad hominem attack, and credibility does actually count for something (where I might think of morality as a fraudulent concept, reason at least counts for something to me), i thought an explanation was at least fair to offer (though it could have been more succint since it was off the top of my head).

on the other hand, it could have ended up longer :shocked:

so there you have it, no retraction, no ill will of course either.

I'm always glad to be put into a position to qualify a certain statement if it is required.

and quite frankly, there is not enough of that these days - hence the 5 major "news" networks and their cable counterparts!

[Industrial Trackfooter]

:tipofthecap:

I will be studying this a little more later.

[mcweak]

Here's a video showing the genius that is Ron Paul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji_G0MqAqq8&NR
Weakness is phat rhymes leaving my mouf.

[CommunistaCow]

Hey Burr, you might have done better simply stating "pull my finger".

[Dr. P]

I really want to start a long-winded diatribe about "The period of 1980-84 is regarded as the jumping off point in which to *respond* to the new sets of challenges," because I find that to be short-sighted revisionist history of the 40 year cold war. But he (and he learned it from you, Cow!) never responds to me and my feelings get all hurt.

[Grandmaster B]

This thread has gone "Sopranos"...

[aaron burr]

Hey Burr, you might have done better simply stating "pull my finger".


really?

i honestly don't know what you mean by that.

If it is intended as a critique or repudiation in explaining the basis for just some of my animus toward the Reagan-deism, perhaps so. I do like to have "proofs of my work", since teacher gives gold stars for effort.

While doing research for some articles, I came across this peice regarding Reagan. This author is far more lucid and a more eloquent writer than I could ever dream of being. (first link)
It's a very good starting point from which to tear down the Reagan-myth.

And bear in mind - this same author, rightfully, directs invective against such pseudo icons as Micheal Moore, Mother Theresa, and the Dalai Lama. And he despises the Clinton-faction probably as much as I do.

In short - he really does his research. I've added some enjoyable viewing links of some of his other work / appearances:

on Reagan

http://www.slate.com/id/2101842/
-----------------------------------------
and while I'm posting some work by him, enjoy this piece on Mother Theresa, with some help from Penn and Teller:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q1m-8npkJ4

---------------------------------------
excellent attack on the seedy opportunism and phony liberalism of Bill Clinton, and the Clinton family itself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnGrc3Kz_YY

--------------------------------------
and well deserved explanation of who Jerry Falwell really was - as well as exposing how truly uneducated Sean Hannity really is ( i doubt he ever even pased grade 10 science), what a weak, backtracking lapdog Colmes is, and what a fucking corrupt scumbag Ralph Reed (*coughAbramoffcough*) is:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_IDfKKWBEZk


http://youtube.com/watch?v=JRvgSrBoI8k

-------------------------------------
and of course, if you would have liked to flip off a Bill Maher audience for their Arsenio-like mindless cheering over easy to applaud talking points? I know I'd love to flip them off often enough:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XLvu9ZWcPKg

----------------------------------------

it's some fun stuff to watch in any case.



Oh hey, pull my finger.

[Jdiggity Dee]

Plenty of T&A with Obama Girl
http://i12.tinypic.com/4vhvr52.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyuawysX0nE&mode=related&search=

[aaron burr]

Plenty of T&A with Obama Girl
http://i12.tinypic.com/4vhvr52.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyuawysX0nE&mode=related&search=



WILL SOMEONE PLEASE PCHOP AN OBAMA-PARIS HILTON SEX SCENE TO CIRCULATE?!


Oh that would be so amazing!

i jus' don' have them skillz

[Industrial Trackfooter]

While doing research for some articles, I came across this peice regarding Reagan. This author is far more lucid and a more eloquent writer than I could ever dream of being. (first link)
It's a very good starting point from which to tear down the Reagan-myth.


I've read the first article. Lucid and eloquent it is not. It's laughably vitriolic.

In that same vein, I noticed every article you linked to was presumably about his dislike of somebody. Maybe hate; he (Hitchens) sure does hate Reagan.

[aaron burr]

I've read the first article. Lucid and eloquent it is not. It's laughably vitriolic.

In that same vein, I noticed every article you linked to was presumably about his dislike of somebody. Maybe hate; he (Hitchens) sure does hate Reagan.



that guy cracks me up.
but i do think he is a lucid writer. at the very least one could say he's "vehemently opposed" to some things.

i thought his angle was a relevent one to come across.
anyway, i guess that what makes polemics.

[Franks n Beans]

I hate politics.

[Dr. P]

Beans, remember what we said when you dropped a similar turd in the MST3K thread?

[Franks n Beans]

Well. That comment is kinda, rhetorical. All I do is listen to political talk radio and watch news. So I well...whatever.

[Boss]

My support of Rudi had been dwindling, this pretty much ran the rest of the sand out of the hourglass.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56309

[CommunistaCow]

that guy cracks me up.
but i do think he is a lucid writer. at the very least one could say he's "vehemently opposed" to some things.

i thought his angle was a relevent one to come across.
anyway, i guess that what makes polemics.

Hitchens and lucid is definitely an oxymoronic pairing. He vacillates between marxism and capitalism quicker than anyone I've ever seen. Of course, it may all be based upon the amount of blood in his scotch at any given moment.

[aaron burr]

Hitchens and lucid is definitely an oxymoronic pairing. He vacillates between marxism and capitalism quicker than anyone I've ever seen. Of course, it may all be based upon the amount of blood in his scotch at any given moment.


i dunno - maybe I am insane but i can see a definite justification for Hitchens' positions.

using marxism and capitalism in their dogmatic definitions makes things that are rhetorical ideas out to be immovable rocks.

but applying working models of economic theory in the developmental purpose under which they were anaylzed is actually entirely consistent.

I can think of as many fallacies and misunderstandings regarding capitalist and free market thinkers (which jibes easily with freethinkers) as I can with interpretations of marxist economic models(which also jibes easily with freethinkers).

two super-kwik major misinterpretations immediately spring to mind:
~ that to 'capitalists', capitalism simply means "unchecked competition without external influence from consumers" - meaning no regulation ever comes into play.
~ or that to marxists, "religion is the opiate of the masses" meaning that religion sedates people into sheeply followers.
BOTH of those popularly adopted conclusions are not even close to the original meaning.


anyway, both models have their flaws, but they have some truth because they are superimposed over historical context. It's also a mistake to think the two are diametrically opposed. there are as many other models that are dogmatic in approach and reject or synthesize any measure of marx/cap models.

that's only the tip of the polar ice cap.

Lastly, I don't know why 'drink' always has to emerge in mentioning Hitchens.
If that issue were a prerequisite for peoples' whose ideas have been favourably applied to the function of society, then we would have to erase the relevent contributions of anyone from Pericles to Galen, US Grant to Teddy Roosevelt, Gen. Patton to Winston Churchill, CS Lewis to Lenny Bruce, Dr. William Banting to Thomas Jefferson. et al.

And i'm certain the list could be added to ad nauseum.

[aaron burr]

My support of Rudi had been dwindling, this pretty much ran the rest of the sand out of the hourglass.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56309


that was good article to point out. among the northern states, the US prez, and canada's weasely last 2 PM's there have been endless 'private meetings' about the fact that this corridor will also extend all the way into northern canada. the North American Union they so cheerfully call it!

oddly enough, highway 61 travels all the way from below the Miss. Delta through Chicago, and that same roadwork continues into North Bay, Ontario. Kind of a continental template.

[CommunistaCow]

Burr, so let me get you straight: you base your understanding of both marxism and capitalism on the extremist components of both. Hmm, interesting.

BTW, I have met Hitchens in NYC (apologies to Trackfooter who thinks I name-drop) and trust me when I state that there is good reason for discussing Hitchens in the context of the consumption of libations.

[Dr. P]

Dude, he's a known booser. So was Hemmingway and some of our founding fathers. I doubt he'd deny it.
But you gotta factor in this is coming from Cow, who at 9:00 EST was describing his breakfast beer! :poke:

[CommunistaCow]

Dude, he's a known booser. So was Hemmingway and some of our founding fathers. I doubt he'd deny it.
But you gotta factor in this is coming from Cow, who at 9:00 EST was describing his breakfast beer! :poke:

Hey, what's that supposed to mean? I'm a deep thinker too. I just rarely know what the hell it is I'm thinking about. :thumbsup:

BTW, at least be honest, Russy. It was actually about 9:30 am CST.

[Boss]

To be honest when I popped open the frig this morning at 6:30 and there wasn't anything to drink except beer, I almost grabbed one.

[aaron burr]

Burr, so let me get you straight: you base your understanding of both marxism and capitalism on the extremist components of both. Hmm, interesting.

.

HUH? I never even came close to saying anything like that.

I simply said I understand that both are useful *models* (among dozens of other models) in a theoretical sense because the better proponents of various schools of thought use historical context to explain or argue in favour of them. It's the math equivalent of showing your proof.

I said, inelegantly:

"using marxism and capitalism in their dogmatic definitions makes things that are rhetorical ideas out to be immovable rocks. "

In other words, I'm saying "dogma, bad. bad dogma. sit dogma, sit."

I just want to add, - and I think you'd agree - when looking at theoretical models of any type, it's as important to search for common denominators as well as the tenets that define them.

The flexibility to be pragmatic is a good thing. I think Socrates and Hegel would agree. It's fully in the spirit of learning about various positions and doing one's best to come up with an informed inquiry.


Now with regard to Hitchens, to whom I posted links because I thought they were kinda fun to watch. I don't know why he has to endure attacks about his drinking. He's the first to admit that he prefers to be "blotto, three sheets to the wind..." Again, an ad hominem attack doesn't reduce a cogent argument. If the only attack to someone's ideas is "oh, well, they drink", then it almost seems as though one concedes the argument.

The previous examples of other "soused luminaries" still stands.

DOUBLE STANDARD ALERT:

To celebrate such a point, a few months back I had the pleasure of interviewing Ernest Hemingway's grandson Edward, who has released a recipe book of the favourite beverages of some of our greatest thinkers ('Hemingway and Bailey's Bartending Guide'). Recipes of 43 men and women of letters - "the list includes 5 Nobel Laureates, 15 Pulitzer Prize winners, not to mention National Book Club Winners, Academy Award Winners..." grace the pages. And their ideas, their writing, their contributions are no less diminished by the fact that they are mostly "totally shitfaced".

Hey, Edgar Allen Poe quips "The desire for society comes upon me only when I have become excited by drink." Faulkner notes that "Civilization begins with distillation". Whether it's in the Victorian parlance of Poe, or the frank, tongue-firmly-planted-in-cheek quip of Faulkner, it's not for me to diminish their capabilities by vice. I only wish I could have been so lucky as to have shared a moment of their company, and a glass of their vice.

[The BYP]

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6661/whoagiffb5.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[aaron burr]

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6661/whoagiffb5.gif (http://imageshack.us):rofl: :tipofthecap:

[TheWagesofSin]

stop blasting the kind lol

[Belasco]

jesus motherfuckin' christ...

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/818/yourekillingmeji2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Industrial Trackfooter]

To celebrate such a point, a few months back I had the pleasure of interviewing Ernest Hemingway's grandson Edward...

Fucking name-droppers are everywhere. :poke:

[Dr. P]

At least you got a pokey, Urn Burr.

[Industrial Trackfooter]

At least you got a pokey, Urn Burr.

You just earned yourself an asterisk, signifying extra hatred.

[aaron burr]

Fucking name-droppers are everywhere. :poke:

:tipofthecap:


i'm sawry.

seriously though, if ya werkk in "media" (which clearly any idiot can do - me being a case in point), ya meet these folks...they are the ones wanting to do the yapping with stuff to shill...ie: Dan Akroyd was just through shilling his new winery here (Diamond Estates) and his new Tequila merketing - and this is no joke:

a coffee flavoured Don Julio mixed with Kalhua on ice - he called it a "delicious and refreshing summer beverage called a Russian Mexican..." :rofl: :rofl:

then he went on about UFO sightings, so he's clearly getting the bottle with the worm(s) in it.


actually here's a good idea for the debates, and democracy in general:

every candidate has to do a tequila shot when they revisit one of their oversquelched talking points. or when dandruff silently falls from Wolf Blitzer's beard (or when Lou Dobbs kills another Ham Sammich).

[Dr. P]

You just earned yourself an asterisk, signifying extra hatred.

Yeah, well I hate you too. Back atcha:
http://i14.tinypic.com/67fgq6r.jpg**

Note the two asterisks and no pokey. I'm serious. Two asterisks!

[KungFuJesus]

http://members.airsoftcanada.com/digital_assasin/Forum%20Stuff/Misc/oh_snap.gif

[CommunistaCow]

http://members.airsoftcanada.com/digital_assasin/Forum%20Stuff/Misc/oh_snap.gif

You bore me. We must dance now.

[The BYP]

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/5481/fargolegstuffan6.jpg

[Jdiggity Dee]

Romney = Dad Griswold?


Deep doo-doo? Time's Ana Marie Cox gets a reaction from PETA [people eating tasty animals] on Romney's treatment of his dog as reported by the Boston Globe in Part 4 of the paper's Romney series. The Globe reported that Romney and family had strapped their Irish setter to the roof of their car on a trip from Massachusetts to Canada. The dog made his opinion known, and he and the car had to be hosed off. "Thinking of the wind, the weather, the speed, the vulnerability, the isolation on the roof, it is commonsense that any dog who's under extreme stress might show that stress by losing control of his bowels: that alone should have been sufficient indication that the dog was, basically, being tortured," said Ingrid Newkirk, PETA president. What's worse, it may actually be against Massachusetts law.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/28/246818.aspx

http://tinyurl.com/2seaf5

Update and spin:

BOSTON (AP) - An example of Mitt Romney's crisis management approach has turned into something of a political problem for the Republican presidential contender.

Romney placed his family dog, an Irish setter named Seamus, into a kennel lashed to the top of his station wagon for a 12-hour family trip from Boston to Ontario in 1983. Despite being shielded by a wind screen the former Massachusetts governor erected, Seamus expressed his discomfort with a diarrhea attack.

Now the story, recounted this week in a Boston Globe profile of Romney, has touched off howls of outrage from bloggers and animal rights activists even though it was presented in the story as an example of Romney's coolness under trying circumstances.

When Romney's eldest son, Tagg, and his four brothers complained about the brown runoff down the back windshield, their father quietly pulled the car over, borrowed a gas station hose and sprayed down both the dog and the kennel before returning to the road.

"Massachusetts animal cruelty laws specifically prohibit anyone from carrying an animal 'in or upon a vehicle, or otherwise, in an unnecessarily cruel or inhuman manner or in a way and manner which might endanger the animal carried thereon,'" wrote Steve Benen in a post on the blog "Crooks and Liars."

Ingrid Newkirk, president of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, told Time magazine's "Swampland" blog: "If you wouldn't strap your child to the roof of your car, you have no business doing that to the family dog!"

Romney dismissed any outcry about the 24-year-old incident, saying the dog enjoyed his rooftop perch.

"He scrambled up there every time we went on trips," Romney said at a campaign stop in Pittsburgh Thursday. "He got it all by himself and enjoyed it."

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070629/D8Q2OC980.html

http://tinyurl.com/2cqoaw

[aaron burr]

anyone see the PBS.org / Tavis Smiley debate tonight (Repub one is on Aug 27th)

was actually leagues better than CNN or MSNBC "debates",
which isn't saying a lot ("If your Creationist and you know it clap your hands"),
but they did make an attempt to have all the time allocation for candidates totally equal.


this should be very interesting for the republican one, too. I have a feeling that the R debate will be much more interesting.

[Jdiggity Dee]

John Edwards is
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l31/pupster67/cropedwards.jpg

Link (http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/story/635844.html)

[Boss]

A fairly brief but well done interview with Ron Paul on Fox News after the debate yesterday. Although I don't agree with him in all areas, I think out of nearly every candidate running currently, he would likely be the best manager. Someone like Ron Paul could REALLY bring this country back together. I just can't see turning this country over to another professional politician/lobbyist, like Romney, Thompson, McCain or any of the top Dem contenders.

http://thespinfactor.com/thetruth/2007/08/05/just-come-home-ron-paul-gives-best-interview-yet-on-fox-news/

[aaron burr]

and check out the current House Resolution jointly introduced by Paul/Kucinich. two good candidates.

[Boss]

Hey Aaron, what's your take on all the alleged Ron Paul conspiracy regarding all the major networks/websites pulling their polls after they clearly show him trouncing his peers following the debates? Are the network people really pulling this shit or are the Dr Paul supporters stuffing the box, possibly unethically?

http://spirit76.org/blog/index.php?id=5518246433781780218

http://bp1.blogger.com/_lJvTbCP0mGk/RrcS_XNXoVI/AAAAAAAAAA8/motRGFLd6RQ/s320/Picture+4.png

[aaron burr]

Boss - like you I am always wary of conspiracies and even constantly chide my fellow "commies" about getting their heads out of their ass on the 9/11 thing and focusing on something tangible.

That said, I know for a fact (as in, having friends in the field who have been present at editorial meetings who decide to arbitrarily 'adjust' the polling data. Some sites have expressed as much ie: DailyKos expressly dislike Kucinich, and Politico.com does not like Ron Paul..

It sounds like the oldest complaint in the book for any campaign, but I truly observe that Ron Paul is being maligned, as is Dennis Kucinich.

Both win or place highly in online and non mainstream media polls - but some skewing is happening.

There are of course, very active "netroots" (i fuckin' hate that phrase) supporters for Ron Paul - and they are a rabid bunch very similar to the Deaniacs I observed in 2003/4 - but Newsweek, CNN, NBC, etc. polling is inherently flawed when certain things are taken into account that a LOT of younger and/or tech savvy people no longer have landlines.

Also, the polling often leaves out registered independents.

If anything, I believe the national polling data we see should have Ron Paul at 5-7% rather than 3%, and Kucinich at 4%-7% - but there is a vicious cycle to the flawed MSM polling - by having unnanounced people like F Thompson and Al Gore, it also skews the polling position. and that means less media overage - and that means less exposure for them.

Play this game next debate: note the advertisers during the breaks, and then visit the FEC website to see who has rec'd donations from the co's that advertise.

There is a PERFECT corollary b/w money rec'd from the parent companies, and actual "alloted time" for responses from the candidates.

It's not a conspiracy - it's collusion. And finally, while people allege that rabid Paul spporters 'stuff' the online polls, if there were as many true supporters for the Holy Trinity of each party, then they are also engaged in stuffing the box too.

One final thing: I have found that the moneyed and "top tier" candidates are employing bloggers (ie: 20 posts X 30 words) to go to rival candidate's sites generate responses and divert their attention.

I actually found this via craigslist.com when applying for various freelance writing jobs.

There's so much more in plain view - but don't feel hollow thinking that Paul is being maligned both by misinformation abut his policies, and ad hominem attacks. Campaign corruption and the role of money is worse than ever now. It's monetarists that are making sure they have representation on both "sides" (which are really the same sides).

Paul (like Kucinich) has been consistent and principled - something that none of the other candidates can claim. They actually give a portion of their congressional salaries BACK - as well as refuse donations from PACS and interest groups and lobbyists.

ok i could type pages more but you get the idea.

P.S. I also LOVED the recommended reading list that Paul suggested for Giuliani. the plain fact is that if 9/11 hadn't happened, Rudy would have no post mayoral career. Notice how many of Rudy's former advisors have emerged with honest and dire warnings about his autocratic character. a google news search will yield some things.

ok, me shut up now. I'm sorry all.

[Boss]

Don't make apologies for being long-winded--that was a great and informative read. I know I've mentioned this in the past, but your descriptions of money and politics takes me back to Ross Perot's run for the presidency when he constantly called the money grab of politicians the greatest threat to democracy, specifically lobbyists. It's equally frightening and disturbing to think that so many special interest groups and corporations are literally buying legislation from candidates and politicians. And since Congress polices itself, there is little hope that these policies will get anything but worse.

As I said, I don't agree with Dr Paul across the board, but I have little doubt that the man is running for the White House for the right reasons. If nothing else, that last debate on Sunday showed me who wil NOT get my support. Tommy Thompson was basically pandering while at the same time regurgitating some political dialog. He seems like almost as big a poser as John Edwards. Mitt Romney is all flash. He looks good speaking, but there's not much substance. Rudy, well I've just lost all respect for Rudy. As much as I wanted to like the guy, he looks like an idiot in these debates. I couldn't believe how he contradicted himself from one sentence to the next, then when the moderator called him on it, he denied it. McCain--I think for the most part his heart is still in the right place, but he just doesn't seem to have much in terms of leadership qualities. He seems to lose credibility every time he opens him mouth lately. Brownback seems out of place, like he doesn't belong on the same stage. He does nothing to separate himself from the pack. Tancredo is interesting. I believe he was the one who had the great blast for Fair Tax.

Keep it coming AB.

[Boss]

You be the judge. Check out the crowd at the Iowa debate outside, (nice to see so many young people getting involved in politics by the way). Then check out the very end of the video.

http://rpmuv.wordpress.com/2007/08/06/you-have-to-see-the-end-of-this-one/

[mysticllama]

The conspiracy theory part of me (which is large and I usually keep chained up in a dark room) sees that and sees an obvious attempt by the news media to control an outcome by selective reporting.

But then I think - what if the guy taking the photos showed up early and just snapped what was there? Are Romney people prompt and Paul people not? Do they have to take a head count and sign count in each photograph that they publish so that they're not accused of bias?

[nate]

Also, were there 10x the number of Romney supporters there than Paul supporters? The video didn't show ANYONE but Paul supporters so you have no way of knowing.

[Boss]

Based on the number of allegations made in regards to this issue over the last few weeks and the fact that our own insider says this shit actually happens, I'm gonna say the video was enough to raise eyebrows.

[aaron burr]

Based on the number of allegations made in regards to this issue over the last few weeks and the fact that our own insider says this shit actually happens, I'm gonna say the video was enough to raise eyebrows.



i just spoke with a corpo media buddy of mine, and they were "directed" to capture certain video that favoured his bosses editorial policy - acting much in the same way as an A.D. acts on a movie set.

fortunately he caught some great Rudy footage from the post NH debate scrum where one of Alex Jones' shills got a bit of a beatdown.

[mysticllama]

i just spoke with a corpo media buddy of mine, and they were "directed" to capture certain video that favoured his bosses editorial policy - acting much in the same way as an A.D. acts on a movie set.

Kind of scary when you figure that a lot of folks don't think about the motivations and political leanings of certain news sources.

I know that I certainly wouldn't have thought twice about why there seemed to be more supporters for one than for another had I just seen some still photos like those shown in the link.

[aaron burr]

Kind of scary when you figure that a lot of folks don't think about the motivations and political leanings of certain news sources.

.

try this drinking game during the debates:
keep the FEC website page open with the 'which corpo gave money to whom' page:

now during the commercials, note the sponsors and do a shot every time one pops up that gave money to one of the three frontrunners on either side (that's 95% of the time).

now you're drunk. go and start a riot.


updated today's dollars = debate airtime stats and they are 100% in line with the dollar amount donated by each respective channel's parent companies.

i know, it's no surprise, but again, something so plain in sight says way too much.


it makes me want to see more people support the...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rk7eH9fXDM

[mysticllama]

it makes me want to see more people support the...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rk7eH9fXDM
_Rk7eH9fXDM

... butthole surfers?

They're.. running? O_o



:thumbsup:

[aaron burr]

the UNDERDOG!!! yeah baby!

and hell yeah i'd vote for the butthole surfers!

[Jdiggity Dee]

...Obama's totally impromptu messican espanglish song on a pro illegal alien amnesty radio show:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2007/08/10/sot.obama.singing.cnn


Perhaps wages can translate. I got the part about beautiful messico...

[aaron burr]

...Obama'.....

man he is such a weasel. i listened to the tape of the interview i did with him in 2004...he makes me shudder ... not like Hillary or Rudy or Mitt makes me shudder, but makes me shudder nonetheless...

[mysticllama]

How do you end up getting through the interview when what you really want to do is get up and take a long hot shower?

Who made you get that "I need to leave now, I'm getting angry" feeling the most?

[aaron burr]

How do you end up getting through the interview when what you really want to do is get up and take a long hot shower?

Who made you get that "I need to leave now, I'm getting angry" feeling the most?


with specific reference to Obama (2004), I got THAT feeling 1/2 way through his answer to my first question, when I realized he was talking down to me, in a sly slimy patronizing way.

you know how when tourists in other countries think that if they speak english very s-l-ow-l-y and louder then they'll be understood? it was like that.

I wonder if he'll talk the same way to "the "president of Canada"?


which leads me to a question for myself :

me:
how can you have such an interest in politics when so many of these fucktards piss me off?

me: shrugs and blinks stupidly.

[mysticllama]

Maybe the people that dislike them should be the ones to sit down and interview them. Hopefully you ask more pointed questions than other folks do (though I'm sure they're Grandmasters at Dodge (251) (sorry, EQ jokes just slip in) and just dodge around your questions like they would of the more sycophantic interviewers).

My question that relates is this - do you have to work for a high profile news outlet to get interviews like the ones you've gotten?

[aaron burr]

My question that relates is this - do you have to work for a high profile news outlet to get interviews like the ones you've gotten?

firstly, i never let anyone get away with fluff questions. no allowances are made ever by me. that's one of my m.o.'s. even where I have compromised myself by my obvious inclinations, when I have an assignment that requires real work, I don't compromise that ethical standard ever. If more reporters/editors/talking heads/execs held themselves to a simple standard, things would be so much different.

as far as the news outlet = access, the very cool thing is that things like the internet have really done a job in levelling the playing field

my prime example:
...check out my acquaintance James Kotecki's 'Emergency Cheese' youtube site (or check out www.jameskotecki.com)

...this is an excellent example of a vlogger who has risen above the partisan / advocacy angle and coupling his love of politics with his web savvy-ness, he has really got the attention of the candidates in both parties - and by a number of mainstream networks.

He just spent the weekend in Iowa covering the Ames straw poll for Politico.com - and he made a point of having lots of fun while doing it - fellow politick geeks will enjoy what James has done as an internet media proponent - I'd even offer that his initial work spawned the Youtube debates...

- esssentially CNN are the ones that fucked the YT debates up by imposing their editorial mandate on the question selection, but the template is a good one with some potential.

ie: a high % of the questions were related to impeachment, rule of law, government accountability, etc. - CNN edited them out, especially those ones asking for direct questions of the network's Holy Trinity. If the questions had been selected by youtibe users, i think the debate would have realized it's potential to level the playing field.

OTHERWISE, to get back to your main question, I think that if you can maintain a reputation as someone credible and someone that is consistent and ethical, access does open up.

And being persistent, but not annoying, always helps.

One note - that Jeff Gannon blogger/reporter incident almost compromised it for a lot of people.

There are, as always, a number of other components, but I have to cite the fact again that more and more people are registered independents - and that is making journalistic access to candidates much easier.

And by no means does the web automatically make the individual more credible - as with everything else online, there is more crap than there is stellar stuff - but that makes the person engaged in media more proactive and in a sublime way, teaches one how to continue to navigate through the trash in all media formats.

just some of the shallower observations on my part, but they are definitely contributing factors.

[cheviothills]

i'm with the paul/kucinich ticket. they seem to be the only candidates that are running on anything other than i've got friends in the cfr and i support the american union platform. in other words, true americans, not just well financed puppets of the banking elite that control this country financially, which is pretty much everything. without the federal reserve there is no irs or social security extortion. though i'm down to have a small tax taken from my wages to pay for the maintenance of the dwindling infrastructure in this country, so we don't get 1-35 episodes happening more frequently.

here's the rundown of the candidates as i see them.

mccain - i'm a former POW from the vietnam era, that should make you die-hard patriots vote for me, and you guilt-ridden protestors respect the pain i've endured to vote me in, as i know suffering. aside from that, i'm useless. i support the american union.

giuliani - my sexden in the solomon brothers building was destroyed on 911. since then, i've profiteered off the subsequent fear and paranoia by starting my own security company. i've got friends in the cfr. i support the american union.

romney - my name is mitt. who the hell is going to vote for someone named baseball glove? did i mention i'm mormon, as if that's going to help. my friends in the cfr and my support of the american union don't matter, because i'm not getting the nomination.

clinton - i'm a total globalist shill, just like bushes and my husband. i'm already vetted by the banker who runs america and decides who is to be president [a certain senator from west virginny], so i'm pretty sure i'm going to win, at least the democratic nomination. i've got friends in the cfr. i support the american union.

obama - i'm the token black candidate. i've also got friends in the cfr. i support the american union.

edwards - i'm a likely vp candidate again. i've got friends in the cfr and i support the american union. my wife has cancer, just thought you all should know that.

richardson - despite my name, i'm hispanic. no really, i am. i govern a border state, have friends in the cfr and support the american union.

with over 6 months until the primaries and well over a year until election day, this whole charade of wall to wall up to the minute election 2008 coverage is outright over the top. basically, whoever wins will further push the usa down the path of unionizing with our neighbors to the north and to the south, just as the current globalist shill in office has done at the behest of his handlers.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/tehrawr/connecting.dots/spp.gov.meeting.jpg

[nate]

That's kinda what it comes down to for me. Ron Paul's the only one with a voting record that proves that he is not a tool of any special interests or lobbyists. ALL of the rest of them are just douchebags in suits who'll do whatever the money tells 'em to do.

[123 Ass Kick Street]

yeah, I have since decided I am most likely going to vote for Ron Paul.

[Dr. P]

<bump>

[Franks n Beans]

Sorry and hate to say but it's lookin like I'll be voting against the Liberals again.

[Dr. P]

Do you have friends in the cfr and support the American Union?

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Do you have friends in the cfr and support the American Union?

I think it is you who should be answering those questions, Mister "for President".

Are you friends with the cfr, and do YOU support the American Union?

Do YOU have any involvement with Haliburton? The Binderbergs? The World Bank? The Vatican? Is the money of the "Big Oil corporations" in you pocket? Are you affiliated with the Illuminati?

[Dr. P]

No to all. Except the Illuminati, DJB and I are pretty tight.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

No to all. Except the Illuminati, DJB and I are pretty tight.

Serious? Then tell him to get the goddamn ball rolling on my request for that plague of demon locusts to swarm over the state of Florida. (But get The Dude out of there first, though. :thumbsup:)

[123 Ass Kick Street]

what about the reptillians?

[123 Ass Kick Street]

shadow people?

[Dr. P]

stop.

[Jdiggity Dee]

WTF, the Republican Debate today, 10-09-2008, is on between 4-6pm Eastern Time. Why so early? How early do these folks go to bed.

[volodya]

Do you know of any site that might be streaming that, JD?

[Jdiggity Dee]

It's on on CNBC network

http://www.cnbc.com/

[Verno]

Jesus Christ that'll be a snoozefest. Noone with a pulse is running R these days. And only an idiot would say Ron Paul.

Edit: the only thing I edited was some punctuation. nate really is an idiot.

[nate]

Ron Paul?

[Franks n Beans]

Still can't see Ms President.

[dr.orfannkyl]

Ron Paul's people are organized. They're trying like crazy to get out the Ron Paul word. For example, if you go to YouTube and type in "Ron Paul" there are almost 35,000 matches. If you type in Rudy Giuliani its about 2,500. Clinton barely has over 11,000 matches.

[Cliff Pettigrew]

Isn't Ron Paul a tranny?

[The BYP]

Isn't Ron Paul a tranny?

You're thinking of Ron Palilo.

http://lamiavitanellafamigliabrady.kaywa.com/files/images/2007/5/480/mob446_1178566958.jpg

[aaron burr]

Fred Thompson was a wet blanket.

BUT did anyone watch the Tavis Smiley GOP PBS black debate? Fred, Mitt, Rudy, and McCain didn't even bother to show up. But Alan Keyes was there. (you can catch it online if you like) www.npr.org

[Franks n Beans]

I think Gore really wants to run and as soon as Hillary falls he's going to.

[aaron burr]

weelllll, i certainly rather have Gore than Hillary...

[The Dude]

weelllll, i certainly rather have Gore than Hillary...

We'll send him North, then.

[aaron burr]

We'll send him North, then.


:tipofthecap: seriously though, you folks prefer Mrs. Thatcher?

[Jdiggity Dee]

Some political parties in the U.S. and U.K. have advocated this goofy maneuver as a cure all for societies ills.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3825056345770693923&q=yogic+flying&total=52&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=1
-3825056345770693923

[Franks n Beans]

Are those videos about Yoga? I don't feel like clicking them to find out.

[The BYP]

Are those videos about Yoga? I don't feel like clicking them to find out.

Nope, just a bunch of guys who just sniffed refrigerants.

[Franks n Beans]

Nope, just a bunch of guys who just sniffed refrigerants.

:tongue:

[Jdiggity Dee]

Are those videos about Yoga? I don't feel like clicking them to find out.

just folks hopping forward and slightly up in the air with their legs crossed. they kind of luck like bunnies as they cross the gymnasium. funny as hell.

[Franks n Beans]

Awww, they look like bunnies?! That's sooo cute! Do they twitch their noses too?

[Superbonbon]

Some political parties in the U.S. and U.K. have advocated this goofy maneuver as a cure all for societies ills.



So I finally go around to watching this vid and to me that looked fcking painful. I'd smash my nuts under my own taint if I tried that.

[Industrial Trackfooter]

...noone with a pulse is running R these days. And only an idiot would say Ron Paul.

I'm a Ron Paul idiot. I gave him a hundred on that November 5th money bomb. (http://www.ronpaulgraphs.com/nov_5_extended_total.html)

[CommunistaCow]

I'm a Ron Paul idiot. I gave him a hundred on that November 5th money bomb. (http://www.ronpaulgraphs.com/nov_5_extended_total.html)

IT, my dad is friends with Ron Paul. And, I can attest to you that the guy is certifiable. Give him a couple steel balls and you'd be watching a remake of The Caine Mutiny.

[Dr. P]

Dude, don't air your dirty laundry here. And anyway, your Dad did a great job raising you.

[CommunistaCow]

Dude, don't air your dirty laundry here. And anyway, your Dad did a great job raising you.

Har, har. Very funny, Russell.

[Dr. P]

You know I keed. And I'm voting Paul in the primaries.

[CommunistaCow]

You know I keed. And I'm voting Paul in the primaries.

No shit? Russy, the guy really is a total nutcase.

[Belasco]

I was thinking about voting for Paul too...

until I read this opinion piece from him.
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2003/tst122903.htm


The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nation’s history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war.

I think Cow is right.

[Dr. P]

His politics are as constitutionally pure as anyone in the last 100 years. Gubmint has gotten too big for my tastes. He is the only one who will shrink it. And I mean slash the Hell outta it.

[Jdiggity Dee]

FYI folks there's another GOP debate tonight, 11-28-08, on CNN.


I like Fred Thompson, and will probably send him a small check, I can just about stomach Giuliani too. Anyone know Cthulhu's address?

[Demiurge]

Yesterday I previewed all of the YouTube questions that are part of that debate tonight, and oh mi go is that shit biased. There's some dykewad feminist on there. Why? There's not a chance in hell she's going to vote for a Republican/Conservative candidate anyways.

I like that people are getting involved, but I find the whole YouTube thing to mostly be a mockery of the process. Seems like it's more meant to embarrass candidates and pin them to a wall than actually have a real debate.

Like all that Vote or Die shit. If you don't know why you're voting, stay fucking home.

[volodya]

Is Beans running for this one too?

[Pull Out Method]

If you don't know why you're voting, stay fucking home.


=D&gt; =D&gt; =D&gt;

[Pinch One Off]

I'm doing a write-in for Chuck Norris.

http://i11.tinypic.com/6p6aedt.jpg

He do look so Presidential.

[Demiurge]

Man...Some jerk started it off with a song. How embarassing did that look. :killme:

BTW -- I think I saw Norris in the audience tonight.... :rofl:

[The BYP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7czRrFNRQO0
7czRrFNRQO0

[Pinch One Off]

God knows we need Chuck For President .:tip: